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I was wondering how many Shakespeare references there are in the canon? I recently read "The Adventure of the Empty House", in which Holmes quotes a line from "Twelfth Night". Was Holmes a fan of the bard? Did he quote him in any of the other stories?. Thank you.
Shakespeare In The Canon.
MultiQuote
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Posted 07 September 2009 - 01:01 PM
Cadogan West, on 06 June 2009 - 01:13 AM, said:
I was wondering how many Shakespeare references there are in the canon? I recently read "The Adventure of the Empty House", in which Holmes quotes a line from "Twelfth Night". Was Holmes a fan of the bard? Did he quote him in any of the other stories?. Thank you.
Well, "The game is afoot" from 'Abbey Grange' is a quote from Shakespeare's Henry V. It's at the closing of the "Once more unto the breach, dear friends" speech (which I used to be able to rattle off verbatim, but apparently only in patches these days, so I just had a wee ferret-through the text for it
):Quote
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips,
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George!'
~ William Shakespeare, Henry V, Act III Sc. I
Straining upon the start. The game's afoot:
Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
Cry 'God for Harry, England, and Saint George!'
~ William Shakespeare, Henry V, Act III Sc. I
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Posted 07 September 2009 - 02:41 PM
Doesn't everyone quote Shakespeare occasionally, whether they know it or not? That is the problem with those plays...they are full of cliches.
According to some very quick research of my immediate bookshelf and this interwebthing it seems that Sherlock Holmes's birthday is celebrated on January 6 at the insistence of the beardless ivory tower scholar, Christopher Morley, based on the fact that Holmes quoted from Twelfth Night twice. Reinforced by the fact that W S Baring-Gould's brother, Felix, was born on the same day. Seems irrefutable to me.
According to some very quick research of my immediate bookshelf and this interwebthing it seems that Sherlock Holmes's birthday is celebrated on January 6 at the insistence of the beardless ivory tower scholar, Christopher Morley, based on the fact that Holmes quoted from Twelfth Night twice. Reinforced by the fact that W S Baring-Gould's brother, Felix, was born on the same day. Seems irrefutable to me.
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Posted 07 September 2009 - 06:56 PM
Cadogan West, on 05 June 2009 - 08:13 PM, said:
I was wondering how many Shakespeare references there are in the canon? I recently read "The Adventure of the Empty House", in which Holmes quotes a line from "Twelfth Night". Was Holmes a fan of the bard? Did he quote him in any of the other stories?. Thank you.
Excellent question, Cadogan West. Ted Friedman of the Baker Street Irregulars gives us not only "The game is afoot" in "Abbey Grange" but "Thrice is he armed who hath his quarrel just" from "Henry IV" in "The Disappearance of Lady Frances Carfax." And Friedman adds that Holmes is slightly off; the real quote is "Thrice is he armed that hath his quarrel just."
I'm always amazed, though, by so many people's referring to "Twelfth Night" and Holmes' supposed quotes from that. No one ever tells us which lines they were. Cadogan, you mention that there's a "Twelfth Night" quote in EMPT -- can you recall what it is, exactly? And then what would be the second quote from "Twelfth Night"?
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Posted 07 September 2009 - 07:16 PM
I hope Cadogan will forgive me for jumping in here. Holmes quotes "Journey end in lovers meeting" to Lestrade as they are reacquainted. I wish Granada had used this line.... 
Is there a second quote from Twelfth?
Is there a second quote from Twelfth?
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Posted 07 September 2009 - 07:23 PM
I came across this article about the choice of January 6 for The Master's birthday.
Snagged from http://cityroom.blog...y-for-sherlock/
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January 6, 2009, 6:17 pm
The Curious Case of a Birthday for Sherlock
By Jennifer 8. Lee
Fans celebrate Sherlock Holmes's birthday on Jan. 6. It is a mystery worthy of a determined sleuth: When exactly is Sherlock Holmes's birthday? So what if he is a fictional character? So what if Sir Arthur Conan Doyle never explicitly reveals the birthday in his short stories and novellas?
Using logic that is, at best, tendentious, most Sherlock Holmes fans have converged on Jan. 6 as the date of famed British detective's birth — and thousands of them will converge this weekend to celebrate it. The largest and oldest gathering, held by the Baker Street Irregulars, will take place in New York City, centered at the Algonquin Hotel. Even though Mr. Holmes made his home at 221B Baker Street in London (and there is a London-based fan club), his psychic home may be the literary circles of New York that have embraced the supersleuth with an eccentric charm.
The Baker Street Irregulars gathering, started in 1934 by the literary essayists Christopher Morley and Vincent Starrett, has become incredibly elaborate, featuring a full-dress banquet, an endowed lecture, a theatrical performance, cocktail parties and special breakfasts over several days. The Baker Street Irregulars, which is named for a ragtag group of street urchins that Mr. Holmes occasionally hires in his book, has included among its members Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman and Isaac Asimov.
Until the early 1990s, the organization was open to men only. (In response, women formed the Adventuresses of Sherlock Holmes.) Currently, the group's membership numbers are near 300 around the world, with people from countries like Japan, Switzerland and Italy.
So why Jan. 6?
Paul Singleton, a Sherlockian scholar and actor in New York, said Christopher Morley made the following argument: Sherlock Holmes quotes Shakespeare often, but the only play he quotes twice is "Twelfth Night." "He determined that Sherlock Holmes was born on the twelfth night, which is January 6." (That date would coincide with the night of the 12 drummers drumming from the famed song. The drummers' labors costs, incidentally, are used to calculate of gifts forms a good consumer price index).
Another argument for Jan. 6 was made by William S. Baring-Gould, who produced the first annotated Sherlock Holmes collection. He and others have argued that "The Valley of Fear," the final Sherlock Holmes novel, starts on Jan. 7.
Mr. Holmes seems to be a little cranky at the beginning of the story and snaps at Dr. John H. Watson. But why would he be in a bad mood? Because of a hangover. Why would he have a hangover? He must have been celebrating the night before. What could he have been celebrating? Certainly it was his birthday. (This is nebulous at best, from City Room's perspective.)
Another reason that was offered: Jan. 6 was the birthday of Mr. Morley's brother Felix.
"It's nebulous," Mr. Singleton admits. "There have been alternate dates proposed."
Some argue Sherlock Holmes's birthday really should be pegged to Dec. 2, the real-life birthday of Dr. Joseph Bell, the professor Doyle is said to have used an in inspiration for Mr. Holmes.
Others take an even more practical argument for the real-life birth of a fictional character. Mr. Holmes's first appearance was in a cheap paperback called "Mrs. Beeton's Christmas Annual," which was published around Dec. 1, 1887. Others say he was born in Doyle's imagination, an event that some Holmes scholars presume took place in the fall of that same year, based on the author's own notes.
The birth year is less up for dispute: 1854. The argument for that? In 1914, Mr. Holmes was described to be a man of 60 when he was instrumental in the capture and arrest of a Prussian spy known as Von Bork. Nonetheless, his centennial was celebrated in 1987, 100 years after he first arrived in print.
Whatever the reason, Jan. 6 more or less stuck as the birth date because of Morley's insistence as the founder of the Baker Street Irregulars.
"He was the leader," Mr. Singleton said. "He reinforced it over the years. Eventually everyone just accepted it. God knows why we have to come to New York in the middle of January. I wish he were born in May somewhere."
In fact, he said, someone has even proposed a May birthday, after the Shear Lock season, which is a sheep-shaving tradition in Ireland.
Snagged from http://cityroom.blog...y-for-sherlock/
-0-0-0-
January 6, 2009, 6:17 pm
The Curious Case of a Birthday for Sherlock
By Jennifer 8. Lee
Fans celebrate Sherlock Holmes's birthday on Jan. 6. It is a mystery worthy of a determined sleuth: When exactly is Sherlock Holmes's birthday? So what if he is a fictional character? So what if Sir Arthur Conan Doyle never explicitly reveals the birthday in his short stories and novellas?
Using logic that is, at best, tendentious, most Sherlock Holmes fans have converged on Jan. 6 as the date of famed British detective's birth — and thousands of them will converge this weekend to celebrate it. The largest and oldest gathering, held by the Baker Street Irregulars, will take place in New York City, centered at the Algonquin Hotel. Even though Mr. Holmes made his home at 221B Baker Street in London (and there is a London-based fan club), his psychic home may be the literary circles of New York that have embraced the supersleuth with an eccentric charm.
The Baker Street Irregulars gathering, started in 1934 by the literary essayists Christopher Morley and Vincent Starrett, has become incredibly elaborate, featuring a full-dress banquet, an endowed lecture, a theatrical performance, cocktail parties and special breakfasts over several days. The Baker Street Irregulars, which is named for a ragtag group of street urchins that Mr. Holmes occasionally hires in his book, has included among its members Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman and Isaac Asimov.
Until the early 1990s, the organization was open to men only. (In response, women formed the Adventuresses of Sherlock Holmes.) Currently, the group's membership numbers are near 300 around the world, with people from countries like Japan, Switzerland and Italy.
So why Jan. 6?
Paul Singleton, a Sherlockian scholar and actor in New York, said Christopher Morley made the following argument: Sherlock Holmes quotes Shakespeare often, but the only play he quotes twice is "Twelfth Night." "He determined that Sherlock Holmes was born on the twelfth night, which is January 6." (That date would coincide with the night of the 12 drummers drumming from the famed song. The drummers' labors costs, incidentally, are used to calculate of gifts forms a good consumer price index).
Another argument for Jan. 6 was made by William S. Baring-Gould, who produced the first annotated Sherlock Holmes collection. He and others have argued that "The Valley of Fear," the final Sherlock Holmes novel, starts on Jan. 7.
Mr. Holmes seems to be a little cranky at the beginning of the story and snaps at Dr. John H. Watson. But why would he be in a bad mood? Because of a hangover. Why would he have a hangover? He must have been celebrating the night before. What could he have been celebrating? Certainly it was his birthday. (This is nebulous at best, from City Room's perspective.)
Another reason that was offered: Jan. 6 was the birthday of Mr. Morley's brother Felix.
"It's nebulous," Mr. Singleton admits. "There have been alternate dates proposed."
Some argue Sherlock Holmes's birthday really should be pegged to Dec. 2, the real-life birthday of Dr. Joseph Bell, the professor Doyle is said to have used an in inspiration for Mr. Holmes.
Others take an even more practical argument for the real-life birth of a fictional character. Mr. Holmes's first appearance was in a cheap paperback called "Mrs. Beeton's Christmas Annual," which was published around Dec. 1, 1887. Others say he was born in Doyle's imagination, an event that some Holmes scholars presume took place in the fall of that same year, based on the author's own notes.
The birth year is less up for dispute: 1854. The argument for that? In 1914, Mr. Holmes was described to be a man of 60 when he was instrumental in the capture and arrest of a Prussian spy known as Von Bork. Nonetheless, his centennial was celebrated in 1987, 100 years after he first arrived in print.
Whatever the reason, Jan. 6 more or less stuck as the birth date because of Morley's insistence as the founder of the Baker Street Irregulars.
"He was the leader," Mr. Singleton said. "He reinforced it over the years. Eventually everyone just accepted it. God knows why we have to come to New York in the middle of January. I wish he were born in May somewhere."
In fact, he said, someone has even proposed a May birthday, after the Shear Lock season, which is a sheep-shaving tradition in Ireland.
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Posted 07 September 2009 - 07:36 PM
Clare Hart, on 07 September 2009 - 03:41 PM, said:
Doesn't everyone quote Shakespeare occasionally, whether they know it or not? That is the problem with those plays...they are full of cliches.
True, but then, they're cliches now; they were new when the Bard penned them!
The_well-known_adventuress, on 07 September 2009 - 07:56 PM, said:
Cadogan, you mention that there's a "Twelfth Night" quote in EMPT -- can you recall what it is, exactly? And then what would be the second quote from "Twelfth Night"?
After the fight with Colonel Moran, Holmes says to him: "'journeys end in lovers' meetings' as the old play says." That's Twelfth Night II.3
Actually, we could probably get them all down if we tried, Apparently in the 60 stories of the Canon, Holmes quoted from 14 of Shakespeare's 37 plays, with Twelfth Night alone getting two outings. Since we have already determined that we have one of those from EMPT, plus Henry V's in ABBE and from LADY, the speech, well, not from Henry IV, Mr. Friedman has his Henrys crossed - that's from Henry VI part 2. Sooooooo we have 12 more references to find!
As for the Holmes connection, I'm inclined to think that Watson's assesment of his areas of knowledge was not entirely accurate in STUD. Every gentleman who attended public school would have studied the Bard thoroughly and no matter how one tries to forget things drilled into him, those things never vanish altogether, a phenomenon to which we can all doubtless attest!
A.
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Posted 07 September 2009 - 08:01 PM
A. Polasek, on 07 September 2009 - 08:36 PM, said:
True, but then, they're cliches now; they were new when the Bard penned them!
I think Clare is quoting some famous quote which (of course) I can't remember at the moment ... It's going to bother me that I can't remember...
"What's that little thing of Chopin's she plays so magnificently: Tra-la-la-lira-lira-lay."
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Posted 07 September 2009 - 08:57 PM
Thank you Lady Halle. It is an old joke, often repeated in various forms. I just couldn't resist.
Also in Empty House is Holmes's line, "I trust that age doth not wither nor custom stale my infinite variety," which is a paraphrase for the famous bit in Anthony and Cleopatra (Act II, Scene 2)
An interesting choice for an alleged misogynist.
I have always thought that Holmes deliberately deceived Watson about his own level of ignorance at the beginning of their relationship just to keep his new flatmate from trying to draw him into lengthy conversations. After all, Holmes was busy building his practice and Watson really didn't have anything to do but lie around and watch him. Once they were settled there are numerous instances of Holmes holding forth on a variety of topics.
Also in Empty House is Holmes's line, "I trust that age doth not wither nor custom stale my infinite variety," which is a paraphrase for the famous bit in Anthony and Cleopatra (Act II, Scene 2)
Quote
Age cannot wither her, nor custom stale
her infinite variety: other women cloy
the appetites they feed; but she makes hungry
Where most she satisfies: for vilest things
become themselves in her; that the holy priests
Bless her when she is riggish.
her infinite variety: other women cloy
the appetites they feed; but she makes hungry
Where most she satisfies: for vilest things
become themselves in her; that the holy priests
Bless her when she is riggish.
An interesting choice for an alleged misogynist.
I have always thought that Holmes deliberately deceived Watson about his own level of ignorance at the beginning of their relationship just to keep his new flatmate from trying to draw him into lengthy conversations. After all, Holmes was busy building his practice and Watson really didn't have anything to do but lie around and watch him. Once they were settled there are numerous instances of Holmes holding forth on a variety of topics.
Everyone should have a Holmes of their own
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 05:48 AM
Clare Hart, on 08 September 2009 - 02:41 AM, said:
According to some very quick research of my immediate bookshelf and this interwebthing it seems that Sherlock Holmes's birthday is celebrated on January 6 at the insistence of the beardless ivory tower scholar, Christopher Morley, based on the fact that Holmes quoted from Twelfth Night twice. Reinforced by the fact that W S Baring-Gould's brother, Felix, was born on the same day. Seems irrefutable to me.
Even more irrefutable since the twelfth night is the night of January 5.
(Or did Morley mean the time of the night after 12 a.m.?).
Clare Hart, on 08 September 2009 - 08:57 AM, said:
Quote
Age cannot wither her, nor custom stale
her infinite variety: other women cloy
the appetites they feed; but she makes hungry
Where most she satisfies: for vilest things
become themselves in her; that the holy priests
Bless her when she is riggish.
her infinite variety: other women cloy
the appetites they feed; but she makes hungry
Where most she satisfies: for vilest things
become themselves in her; that the holy priests
Bless her when she is riggish.
An interesting choice for an alleged misogynist.
Ah! A perfect quote to use against that disgusting subspecies called women. *spits*
I wonder why I spend so much time on HN, where most of the members are women.
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 07:06 AM
Clare Hart, on 07 September 2009 - 10:57 PM, said:
Also in Empty House is Holmes's line, "I trust that age doth not wither nor custom stale my infinite variety," which is a paraphrase for the famous bit in Anthony and Cleopatra (Act II, Scene 2)
*slaps forehead* That's even my signature! I knew that was Shakespeare... stupid, stupid, stupid... I'm losing my marbles here guys! Ok, so ten more plays and one more quote from Twelfth Night to go!
sherlockian, on 08 September 2009 - 07:48 AM, said:
Ah! A perfect quote to use against that disgusting subspecies called women. *spits*
I wonder why I spend so much time on HN, where most of the members are women.
I wonder why I spend so much time on HN, where most of the members are women.
Because you looooooooooooooooooooooove us!
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 09:56 AM
A. Polasek, on 07 September 2009 - 08:36 PM, said:
Actually, we could probably get them all down if we tried, Apparently in the 60 stories of the Canon, Holmes quoted from 14 of Shakespeare's 37 plays, with Twelfth Night alone getting two outings. Since we have already determined that we have one of those from EMPT, plus Henry V's in ABBE and from LADY, the speech, well, not from Henry IV, Mr. Friedman has his Henrys crossed - that's from Henry VI part 2. Sooooooo we have 12 more references to find!
Ah! I was going to say "Thrice is he armed that hath his quarrel just" but I see that someone beat me to it!
A. Polasek, on 07 September 2009 - 08:36 PM, said:
Every gentleman who attended public school would have studied the Bard thoroughly and no matter how one tries to forget things drilled into him, those things never vanish altogether, a phenomenon to which we can all doubtless attest!
Well...IF Holmes attended a 'public school' (some will argue that!) But yes! I for one can attest to the fact that there are some things that were drilled into me that I know I'll never forget...
sherlockian, on 08 September 2009 - 06:48 AM, said:
Even more irrefutable since the twelfth night is the night of January 5.
(Or did Morley mean the time of the night after 12 a.m.?).
(Or did Morley mean the time of the night after 12 a.m.?).
I'm sure that he meant after 12 a.m.
sherlockian, on 08 September 2009 - 06:48 AM, said:
Ah! A perfect quote to use against that disgusting subspecies called women. *spits*
I wonder why I spend so much time on HN, where most of the members are women.
I wonder why I spend so much time on HN, where most of the members are women.
Oh come on! Where would you be without us?????
A. Polasek, on 08 September 2009 - 08:06 AM, said:
I'm losing my marbles here guys!
A.
A.
Losing??? But....I thought....that they were already lost????
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 10:15 AM
.
Are these the Twelfth Night quotes? (It seems that Holmes used the same quote in two stories)
I believe the actual Twelfth Night quote is:
Are these the Twelfth Night quotes? (It seems that Holmes used the same quote in two stories)
Quote
"Ah, Colonel!" said Holmes, arranging his rumpled collar. "'Journeys end in lovers' meetings,' as the old play says..." - (from Empty House)
Quote
"Why, Gregson!" said my companion as he shook hands with the Scotland Yard detective. "Journeys end with lovers' meetings..." - (from Red Circle)
I believe the actual Twelfth Night quote is:
Quote
"Journeys end in lovers meeting, Every wise man's son doth know."
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 10:21 AM
A. Polasek, on 08 September 2009 - 07:06 PM, said:
Because you looooooooooooooooooooooove us!
BakerStreetBabe, on 08 September 2009 - 09:56 PM, said:
Oh come on! Where would you be without us?????
I think people might find this interesting: Literary Skills of Sherlock Holmes
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Posted 08 September 2009 - 01:18 PM
sherlockian, on 08 September 2009 - 11:21 AM, said:
I think people might find this interesting: Literary Skills of Sherlock Holmes
.
.
Thanks for sharing that! It was really interesting!
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Posted 09 September 2009 - 06:02 AM
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I hope this is not too off-topic:
Click here if you can't see the image.
Click here if you can't see the image.
Click here if you can't see the image.
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I hope this is not too off-topic:
Click here if you can't see the image.
Click here if you can't see the image.
Click here if you can't see the image.
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Posted 09 September 2009 - 10:43 AM
Bahaha!!!! I love it all, especially the: “I pray thee, good David, let’s retire: the day is rainy….for now these wet days is the midterm stirring…”
How well I know her feelings!! Just replace ‘midterm’ with ‘finals’…..
How well I know her feelings!! Just replace ‘midterm’ with ‘finals’…..
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Posted 09 September 2009 - 09:02 PM
Decided to try to get this back to Holmes and Shakespeare so I pulled down my Klinger Annotated and, with some help from the wonderful index by James Edward Holroyd at Baker Street By-Ways, I made a list and started checking them out. Mr Holroyd has only indexed the first two volumes so far (amazing feat that it is) so I have no idea what may be hidden in the novels. My own knowledge of Shakespeare is only a little better than my knowledge of quantum mechanics.
Unfortunatley after making my list of page numbers and hunting up the relevant passages I have very little to add to what is already here.
In The Three Students a landlady babbling about green peas is compared to Falstaff's babbling about green fields on his deathbed(?)
At the beginning of Case of Identity Holmes's use of the phrase "...it would make all fiction with its use of conventionalities and conclusions most stale and unprofitable." is taken as a paraphrase of "How weary, stale, flat and unprofitable/ Seem to me all the uses of this world." (Hamlet Act I scene 2) Which seems like something of a stretch to me. However it would be fun to embroider it on a pillow and throw it at him the next time he starts going on about there being "no crime and no criminals in these days".
Unfortunatley after making my list of page numbers and hunting up the relevant passages I have very little to add to what is already here.
In The Three Students a landlady babbling about green peas is compared to Falstaff's babbling about green fields on his deathbed(?)
At the beginning of Case of Identity Holmes's use of the phrase "...it would make all fiction with its use of conventionalities and conclusions most stale and unprofitable." is taken as a paraphrase of "How weary, stale, flat and unprofitable/ Seem to me all the uses of this world." (Hamlet Act I scene 2) Which seems like something of a stretch to me. However it would be fun to embroider it on a pillow and throw it at him the next time he starts going on about there being "no crime and no criminals in these days".
Everyone should have a Holmes of their own
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Posted 10 September 2009 - 01:35 PM
Clare Hart, on 09 September 2009 - 10:02 PM, said:
My own knowledge of Shakespeare is only a little better than my knowledge of quantum mechanics.
Oh, if you need help with quantum mechanics, talk to Sherlockian! He knows quantum mechanics like the back of his hand!
Clare Hart, on 09 September 2009 - 10:02 PM, said:
However it would be fun to embroider it on a pillow and throw it at him the next time he starts going on about there being "no crime and no criminals in these days".
That DOES sound like fun....or just write it on a piece of paper and stick it on the chemistry table...