[ichthyosaur]

I looked for a thread on this topic but couldn't find one; if there actually is already one on the subject, my bad ya'll. x)

A lot of books have a take on Sherlock's past. I don't know what these theories are yet because I wanted to look at the canon objectively without any outside ideas influencing my own thoughts. There's no definitive, end-all-be-all answer or theory (or there wouldn't be books about it!) but at the same time his character can maybe give some indication. Here's what I think, and I'd love to know what you believe too!

It's easy to think that as Sherlock and Mycroft possess extraordinary mental abilities it may be a genetic trait, inherited from one parent or another. If that's true then I think their father might have also been similarily gifted. The argument about the mother having actually passed this down to them would be Sherlock's tendency to disregard women's intelligence. Had his mother exhibited those skills Holmes might have paid more reverance to female abilities.

And not only does he not give admiration, he scoffs. This leads me to think that his mother may have been the epitome of a woman's portrait in his mind's eye--whatever weaknesses he believes that women in general have, maybe his mother did and so first gave him that impression. There's the obvious question of: if Holmes Sr. was anything like Holmes, why would he marry a woman whose intellect would have been so inferior to his own? But the marraige was very possibly a match of convenience rather than love--and as both Holmes and Mycroft are unmarried, perhaps it was witnessing their parent's uneven marraige that influenced their bachelor lives. There is of course also the possibility that Mrs. Holmes died when Sherlock was young, but I think that would be more likely to create a tender spot in Holmes than a disdainful one.

Now I don't know how to explain for sure their situation in the present canon, whether they're alive or not and if they are, if Holmes communicates with them. If they are still alive, Holmes is seemingly not terribly close to them even if he does share traits with his father. Sherlock and Mycroft get along well, but they are clearly both described as private individuals. This might also be something inherited from Sr. Because of this I don't think Holmes was ever estranged from his parents, just very much accustomed to being alone. Of course if Mr. and Mrs. Holmes are indeed dead, then uh I guess the noncommunication thing is explained.

(BTW I am not taking into account other family members, sisters grandparents aunts/uncles etc., which of course can alter everything.)

As to financials: Would it have been on his own funds that he attended university? I don't know. He might have had a scholarship. After coming to London he took a room around the corner from the British Museum--would that have been considered swanky? In any case he says that he filled in his 'too abundant leisure time by studying all those branches of science which might make him more proficient.' This of course suggests that he did not have any consistent income. Where then, did he get his money? He mentioned occasional cases but those don't pay bills. He might have written scientific articles to sustain his rent. Holmes did tell Reginald Musgrave that he had 'taken to living by his wits.' Also a possibility: he lived on private funds already secured. By that I do mean family, but not in the sense of a moocher--it might have been money inherited after his parent's death(s). If such a fund ever existed, it probably ran out by the 'A study in scarlet' timeline as he needed a roommate to help supply the rent for rooms on Baker Street. Lol maybe he blew it on drugs and violins?

Oh geez. There's like a thousand more things to add but I haven't got a grudge against your retinas, I swear. So I'll stop rambling. My opinions are of course my own and unsubstantiated, just a personal idea of Holmes' past. But I want to know what you think! If your theory involves pirates, ninjas or an assortment of both, all power to ya. x)

[Professor Challenger]

ichthyosaur, on Aug 21 2007, 09:46 AM, said:

I looked for a thread on this topic but couldn't find one; if there actually is already one on the subject, my bad ya'll. x)

A lot of books have a take on Sherlock's past. I don't know what these theories are yet because I wanted to look at the canon objectively without any outside ideas influencing my own thoughts. There's no definitive, end-all-be-all answer or theory (or there wouldn't be books about it!) but at the same time his character can maybe give some indication. Here's what I think, and I'd love to know what you believe too!

It's easy to think that as Sherlock and Mycroft possess extraordinary mental abilities it may be a genetic trait, inherited from one parent or another. If that's true then I think their father might have also been similarily gifted. The argument about the mother having actually passed this down to them would be Sherlock's tendency to disregard women's intelligence. Had his mother exhibited those skills Holmes might have paid more reverance to female abilities.

And not only does he not give admiration, he scoffs. This leads me to think that his mother may have been the epitome of a woman's portrait in his mind's eye--whatever weaknesses he believes that women in general have, maybe his mother did and so first gave him that impression. There's the obvious question of: if Holmes Sr. was anything like Holmes, why would he marry a woman whose intellect would have been so inferior to his own? But the marraige was very possibly a match of convenience rather than love--and as both Holmes and Mycroft are unmarried, perhaps it was witnessing their parent's uneven marraige that influenced their bachelor lives. There is of course also the possibility that Mrs. Holmes died when Sherlock was young, but I think that would be more likely to create a tender spot in Holmes than a disdainful one.

Now I don't know how to explain for sure their situation in the present canon, whether they're alive or not and if they are, if Holmes communicates with them. If they are still alive, Holmes is seemingly not terribly close to them even if he does share traits with his father. Sherlock and Mycroft get along well, but they are clearly both described as private individuals. This might also be something inherited from Sr. Because of this I don't think Holmes was ever estranged from his parents, just very much accustomed to being alone. Of course if Mr. and Mrs. Holmes are indeed dead, then uh I guess the noncommunication thing is explained.

(BTW I am not taking into account other family members, sisters grandparents aunts/uncles etc., which of course can alter everything.)

As to financials: Would it have been on his own funds that he attended university? I don't know. He might have had a scholarship. After coming to London he took a room around the corner from the British Museum--would that have been considered swanky? In any case he says that he filled in his 'too abundant leisure time by studying all those branches of science which might make him more proficient.' This of course suggests that he did not have any consistent income. Where then, did he get his money? He mentioned occasional cases but those don't pay bills. He might have written scientific articles to sustain his rent. Holmes did tell Reginald Musgrave that he had 'taken to living by his wits.' Also a possibility: he lived on private funds already secured. By that I do mean family, but not in the sense of a moocher--it might have been money inherited after his parent's death(s). If such a fund ever existed, it probably ran out by the 'A study in scarlet' timeline as he needed a roommate to help supply the rent for rooms on Baker Street. Lol maybe he blew it on drugs and violins?

Oh geez. There's like a thousand more things to add but I haven't got a grudge against your retinas, I swear. So I'll stop rambling. My opinions are of course my own and unsubstantiated, just a personal idea of Holmes' past. But I want to know what you think! If your theory involves pirates, ninjas or an assortment of both, all power to ya. x)

Holmes was the son of a country squire and a gentleman of idependent means. He would have enough money to live reasonably comfortably if not ostentatiously. It seems possible that his parents had died when he was a child. Both he and Mycroft would have inherited the estate, and enough money to keep them, as long as they didn't blow it all on gambling and/or booze. Holmes had the time and leisure to study without having to do a regular job. The money was sufficient for a pokey little room near the British Museum, but the Baker Street apartment would start to cut into his inheritance. By the time of Watson's marriage he was able to afford to keep the rooms himself, so moving to 221b seems to have been a good idea.

The idea of Holmes inheriting his genius from his father is possible, but not certain. Genius can often seem to come from nowhere, and the arguments about nature/nurture still rage.

[Tara]

I heard once that half of your intelligence is inherited.

[Tara]

double post

[The Solitary Cyclist]

ichthyosaur, on Aug 21 2007, 09:46 AM, said:

I looked for a thread on this topic but couldn't find one; if there actually is already one on the subject, my bad ya'll. x)

A lot of books have a take on Sherlock's past. I don't know what these theories are yet because I wanted to look at the canon objectively without any outside ideas influencing my own thoughts. There's no definitive, end-all-be-all answer or theory (or there wouldn't be books about it!) but at the same time his character can maybe give some indication. Here's what I think, and I'd love to know what you believe too!

It's easy to think that as Sherlock and Mycroft possess extraordinary mental abilities it may be a genetic trait, inherited from one parent or another. If that's true then I think their father might have also been similarily gifted. The argument about the mother having actually passed this down to them would be Sherlock's tendency to disregard women's intelligence. Had his mother exhibited those skills Holmes might have paid more reverance to female abilities.

And not only does he not give admiration, he scoffs. This leads me to think that his mother may have been the epitome of a woman's portrait in his mind's eye--whatever weaknesses he believes that women in general have, maybe his mother did and so first gave him that impression. There's the obvious question of: if Holmes Sr. was anything like Holmes, why would he marry a woman whose intellect would have been so inferior to his own? But the marraige was very possibly a match of convenience rather than love--and as both Holmes and Mycroft are unmarried, perhaps it was witnessing their parent's uneven marraige that influenced their bachelor lives. There is of course also the possibility that Mrs. Holmes died when Sherlock was young, but I think that would be more likely to create a tender spot in Holmes than a disdainful one.

Now I don't know how to explain for sure their situation in the present canon, whether they're alive or not and if they are, if Holmes communicates with them. If they are still alive, Holmes is seemingly not terribly close to them even if he does share traits with his father. Sherlock and Mycroft get along well, but they are clearly both described as private individuals. This might also be something inherited from Sr. Because of this I don't think Holmes was ever estranged from his parents, just very much accustomed to being alone. Of course if Mr. and Mrs. Holmes are indeed dead, then uh I guess the noncommunication thing is explained.

(BTW I am not taking into account other family members, sisters grandparents aunts/uncles etc., which of course can alter everything.)

As to financials: Would it have been on his own funds that he attended university? I don't know. He might have had a scholarship. After coming to London he took a room around the corner from the British Museum--would that have been considered swanky? In any case he says that he filled in his 'too abundant leisure time by studying all those branches of science which might make him more proficient.' This of course suggests that he did not have any consistent income. Where then, did he get his money? He mentioned occasional cases but those don't pay bills. He might have written scientific articles to sustain his rent. Holmes did tell Reginald Musgrave that he had 'taken to living by his wits.' Also a possibility: he lived on private funds already secured. By that I do mean family, but not in the sense of a moocher--it might have been money inherited after his parent's death(s). If such a fund ever existed, it probably ran out by the 'A study in scarlet' timeline as he needed a roommate to help supply the rent for rooms on Baker Street. Lol maybe he blew it on drugs and violins?

Oh geez. There's like a thousand more things to add but I haven't got a grudge against your retinas, I swear. So I'll stop rambling. My opinions are of course my own and unsubstantiated, just a personal idea of Holmes' past. But I want to know what you think! If your theory involves pirates, ninjas or an assortment of both, all power to ya. x)

Your theory makes sense to me, though I think that we should not disregard the possibility that he inherited his intelligence from his mother. Intelligence is often passed down from the mother, after all. I cannot imagine such an intelligent father marrying a woman who is completely daft. I like to think that his morality was infused by his father and his cunning by his mother. But, that is just my imagination running away with me. My opinion is that his dislike of women comes from another source. I could imagine him being rejected by superficial women in his youth; they could not correctly evaluate him and they are, thus, stupid and vain (this is his opinion, of course).

I believe that he doesn't talk of his parents because they died. He mentioned his grandmother and brother; I would think that, with time, he would tell Watson something of his parents unless something very painful is connected with their memory. Either he had an unhappy childhood, or his parents died. Perhaps his mistrust of women comes from his mother leaving his father.

Who knows?

[ichthyosaur]

I like both of those, Professor and Cyclist! That he was the son of a country squire is perfect; I really like that. I mean obviously even I'm not convinced by my own reasoning, I know that it's only one conjecture out of approx. a few hundred. The only thing I'm pretty sure on is that the parents are dead, and have probably been for a while.

Cyc, now I'm going to have to draw a Sherlock comic where he gets continually rejected by the ladies. ;D Oh geez I can see it now. "why u b hatin baby"

[The Solitary Cyclist]

ichthyosaur, on Aug 21 2007, 06:24 PM, said:

I like both of those, Professor and Cyclist! That he was the son of a country squire is perfect; I really like that. I mean obviously even I'm not convinced by my own reasoning, I know that it's only one conjecture out of approx. a few hundred. The only thing I'm pretty sure on is that the parents are dead, and have probably been for a while.

Cyc, now I'm going to have to draw a Sherlock comic where he gets continually rejected by the ladies. ;D Oh geez I can see it now. "why u b hatin baby"

Yes! I don't want to go too far off-topic, but...

Holmes: "hey, sweet thang... u look tired"
Girl: "why?"
Holmes: "cus u ben runnin round my mind all nite"
Girl: "buzz off"
Holmes: "why u b hatin baby"
*Different girl walks past.*
Holmes: "hey, gurl... u look tired"

[Sherlockian]

ichthyosaur, on Aug 21 2007, 09:46 PM, said:

It's easy to think that as Sherlock and Mycroft possess extraordinary mental abilities it may be a genetic trait, inherited from one parent or another. If that's true then I think their father might have also been similarily gifted. The argument about the mother having actually passed this down to them would be Sherlock's tendency to disregard women's intelligence. Had his mother exhibited those skills Holmes might have paid more reverance to female abilities.

Sherlock and Mycroft may have inherited the extraordinary mental abilities from their grandmother. the following is an excerpt from The Greek Interpreter:

Quote

“In your own case,” said I, “from all that you have told me, it seems obvious that your faculty of observation and your peculiar facility for deduction are due to your own systematic training.”

“To some extent,” he answered thoughtfully. “My ancestors were country squires, who appear to have led much the same life as is natural to their class. But, none the less, my turn that way is in my veins, and may have come with my grandmother, who was the sister of Vernet, the French artist. Art in the blood is liable to take the strangest forms.”

[Brain]

How some of us have heard or read Jeremy Brett - as a famous actor - studied the Canon in detail about Sherlock Holmes. In Bending the Willow David Stuart Davies report us of a talking between Jeremy Paul (writer on the Granada Holmes series and writer of the play The Secret of Sherlock Holmes) and Jeremy Brett, in which Jeremy Brett told him his vision of Sherlock Holmes‘s childhood. This vision is very sharp-sighted, brilliant, I think (regarding Jeremy Brett‘s own family background too):

„I crawled into every corner of my imagination to find out what made Holmes. I have this whole history of him as a child which I used to fill this chasm - to find out what he‘s made of. He‘s very private. To help to discover what he‘s like inside I had this whole story of his life.

He was tied very tight as a child in the cot as they used to in those days to keep them quiet. Children were seen but not heard - especially in the Holmes household which I‘ve always placed in my mind in Cornwall ... very remote. A bleak house. Never knew his father at all until he was 21. Saw him but never spoke to him. He had an elder brother who was fat and a little bit far ahead of him. They didn‘t have much in common either. They were kissed by their mother on her way down to dinner, but that‘s all. Isolation from an early age. Typical Victorian upbringing. I think that he had more in common with his mother - she was the brains - but, of course, women were not allowed to say much in those days and this reserve rubbed off on Sherlock. His father was a fat, ex army toad, I think.

Anyway, he escaped to Eton - or one of the major public schools. He was a spidery person, with no colour in his face, no friends - scared of friendship - but brilliant at certain subjects. Brilliant at fencing and boxing, but always the person who walked away from personal encounters. He was devastatingly unattractive: white as a sheet, spotty probably, with all the complications of puberty and no one there to guide him through it. Probably love singing and joined the choir.

University. I would plump for Oxford. Oxford is darker. Cambridge is too fuli of light. Then brilliance-growing-mind developing - debating societies. Probably saw a girl - a woman, whom he fancied, but she didn‘t see him. That one rejection did it. The one time he placed himself in a vulnerable situation and to see her turn away and choose someone else snapped the door shut like a steel trap, never to be opened again. What should he do now? Return home to his family and take up some dreary duties associated with the estate. He wanted to escape that. Mycroft, ahead of him, had escaped: He‘d waddled out of University and managed to get a junior post in the current government. Mycroft had also joined a club only a Holmes would join - one in which no one spoke. Sherlock, isolated as he was now, forced himself to find his own way - his own job - and therefore become himself.“

(Bending the Willow, pages 119-120)

[The Solitary Cyclist]

Wow! Thanks for sharing! His opinion is very insightful and intelligent.

Brain, on Aug 22 2007, 09:58 AM, said:

How some of us have heard or read Jeremy Brett - as a famous actor - studied the Canon in detail about Sherlock Holmes. In Bending the Willow David Stuart Davies report us of a talking between Jeremy Paul (writer on the Granada Holmes series and writer of the play The Secret of Sherlock Holmes) and Jeremy Brett, in which Jeremy Brett told him his vision of Sherlock Holmes‘s childhood. This vision is very sharp-sighted, brilliant, I think (regarding Jeremy Brett‘s own family background too):

„I crawled into every corner of my imagination to find out what made Holmes. I have this whole history of him as a child which I used to fill this chasm - to find out what he‘s made of. He‘s very private. To help to discover what he‘s like inside I had this whole story of his life.

He was tied very tight as a child in the cot as they used to in those days to keep them quiet. Children were seen but not heard - especially in the Holmes household which I‘ve always placed in my mind in Cornwall ... very remote. A bleak house. Never knew his father at all until he was 21. Saw him but never spoke to him. He had an elder brother who was fat and a little bit far ahead of him. They didn‘t have much in common either. They were kissed by their mother on her way down to dinner, but that‘s all. Isolation from an early age. Typical Victorian upbringing. I think that he had more in common with his mother - she was the brains - but, of course, women were not allowed to say much in those days and this reserve rubbed off on Sherlock. His father was a fat, ex army toad, I think.

Anyway, he escaped to Eton - or one of the major public schools. He was a spidery person, with no colour in his face, no friends - scared of friendship - but brilliant at certain subjects. Brilliant at fencing and boxing, but always the person who walked away from personal encounters. He was devastatingly unattractive: white as a sheet, spotty probably, with all the complications of puberty and no one there to guide him through it. Probably love singing and joined the choir.

University. I would plump for Oxford. Oxford is darker. Cambridge is too fuli of light. Then brilliance-growing-mind developing - debating societies. Probably saw a girl - a woman, whom he fancied, but she didn‘t see him. That one rejection did it. The one time he placed himself in a vulnerable situation and to see her turn away and choose someone else snapped the door shut like a steel trap, never to be opened again. What should he do now? Return home to his family and take up some dreary duties associated with the estate. He wanted to escape that. Mycroft, ahead of him, had escaped: He‘d waddled out of University and managed to get a junior post in the current government. Mycroft had also joined a club only a Holmes would join - one in which no one spoke. Sherlock, isolated as he was now, forced himself to find his own way - his own job - and therefore become himself.“

(Bending the Willow, pages 119-120)

[Professor Challenger]

The Solitary Cyclist, on Aug 22 2007, 11:57 AM, said:

Wow! Thanks for sharing! His opinion is very insightful and intelligent.

It interesting to note that Jeremy Brett had a father who was an army officer, who didn't understand why he wanted to act, and wasn't really close to him until he grew up. I wonder if Sherlock Holmes isn't the ultimate ink-blot test. We all read into him some aspects of our own personality/history, and thus personalise him to some extent. Perhaps that's one of the reasons for his popularity.

[The Solitary Cyclist]

Professor Challenger, on Aug 22 2007, 12:43 PM, said:

It interesting to note that Jeremy Brett had a father who was an army officer, who didn't understand why he wanted to act, and wasn't really close to him until he grew up. I wonder if Sherlock Holmes isn't the ultimate ink-blot test. We all read into him some aspects of our own personality/history, and thus personalise him to some extent. Perhaps that's one of the reasons for his popularity.

Good point. He may have also chosen that history so that he could better identify with a character so unlike himself. Holmes is Jeremy gone wrong, in a sense. "Wrong" is not the right word, of course, but I think you get the idea.

[Lady Halle]

Really interesting topic. Keep posting, people!

Maybe Sherlock had a flighty sister who was similarly intelligent but a bit more worldly, and more interested in finding a husband than cultivating her talents. This could explain the disdain he felt for the "shallowness" of women.

More psychoanalysis! More!

[Sherlockian]

great theory Lady Halle.

[Professor Challenger]

sherlockian, on Aug 23 2007, 06:41 AM, said:

great theory Lady Halle.

We hear a great deal about Holmes' disdain for women from Watson, but very rarely in directly quoted speech from Holmes. He is very complimentary towards several of his female clients, and quite frankly he is all over Violet Smith and one or two of the others. I do wonder whether he simply enjoyed guying Watson. Just as he pretended not to know the Copernican theory in order to shock the Doctor, he may have enjoyed pretending to despise women. Watson is something of an admirer of the female sex, and taking this attitude would be just the thing that would annoy him.

[The Solitary Cyclist]

Professor Challenger, on Aug 23 2007, 12:27 PM, said:

We hear a great deal about Holmes' disdain for women from Watson, but very rarely in directly quoted speech from Holmes. He is very complimentary towards several of his female clients, and quite frankly he is all over Violet Smith and one or two of the others. I do wonder whether he simply enjoyed guying Watson. Just as he pretended not to know the Copernican theory in order to shock the Doctor, he may have enjoyed pretending to despise women. Watson is something of an admirer of the female sex, and taking this attitude would be just the thing that would annoy him.

So like our dear Holmes... I wouldn't put it past him. And, I think that Holmes dislikes humans in general. And, if you wanted to generalize, women are more emotional than men and emotions can, at times, damage reasoning. So, Holmes dislikes the sex unless he finds he finds an exception to his faulty rule.

[FaerieGeek]

I always thought that Holmes might have had some bad experiences with women and or romance in the past that left him disconcerted in some way. College perhaps? He wasn't always a detective after all. I have some doubts that his brain did indeed "always" govern his heart. He is human after all.

I once read a book that dealt with this topic. It had various stories about Holmes' romantic past. I believe the book made more of the "most winning woman" Holmes ever knew, that was, "hanged for poisoning three little children for their insurance money." It was quite a sad story and completely believeable (to me anyway.) I'd be glad if someone knew the title of that book.

But anyway, yes. I believe that Holmes was not always the famous asexual we've grown to love.

[ichthyosaur]

Holmes probably just had some batty Aunt Wanda that wore an old fox stohl and smelled like mothballs. I like to think of the Holmes bros. being inexplicably produced from a troupe of eccentric loonies.

And maybe he even grew up an object of torment for like six older sisters, who tied him to a chair and put his hair in curls. At college he might be the failed Casanova, trying to understand what it was about tobacco ash identification that the ladies didn't find sexy.

[The Solitary Cyclist]

ichthyosaur, on Aug 23 2007, 08:39 PM, said:

Holmes probably just had some batty Aunt Wanda that wore an old fox stohl and smelled like mothballs. I like to think of the Holmes bros. being inexplicably produced from a troupe of eccentric loonies.

And maybe he even grew up an object of torment for like six older sisters, who tied him to a chair and put his hair in curls. At college he might be the failed Casanova, trying to understand what it was about tobacco ash identification that the ladies didn't find sexy.

I agree. Heartily.

[Sherlockian]

Professor Challenger, on Aug 24 2007, 12:27 AM, said:

quite frankly he is all over Violet Smith

don't you mean Violet Hunter?
and anyway, was there any definite evidence of "being all over her" in the canon? i doubt it.